[I swore to myself I wouldn’t write about this, but I can’t seem to help it.]
Rush Limbaugh said something vile and misogynistic about Sandra Fluke. A lot of people got justifiably angry. After seven or eight advertisers dropped him like a P.R. nightmare potato, dear old Rush made an apology from the depth of his wallet – I mean, heart.
Of course, he didn’t leave it there. He blamed liberals for his original comments, saying that he “became like them” when he used misogynistic slurs to describe Sandra Fluke. Michele Bachmann also weighed in, saying, “I have never seen this level of outrage on the left about what the left-leaning commentators said about me.”
This reaction reminds me of the behavior I would see in my students when I taught eighth grade. Kid A would throw a pen at Kid B, and when I told Kid A to stop, Kid A would defend hirself by saying, “But Kid C did it to Kid D a minute ago and you didn’t say nothin’!”
Limbaugh is employing eighth-grade behavior here, deflecting from his own terrible action by pointing out what leftists have done in the past, and Bachmann is employing the same argument. They don’t have principled stands on misogyny; they just don’t like it when people use misogyny against them or criticize people on their side. They’re hypocrites.
But they’re not wrong.
As Kirsten Powers from The Daily Beast pointed out, many so-called progressive men like Bill Maher, Keith Olbermann, Michael Moore, and Chris Matthews (who hates Hillary Clinton like it’s his job), consistently employ misogynistic slurs and tactics against women they don’t like, be they Sarah Palin, Michele Bachmann, Michelle Malkin, or other conservative women.
“So what?” You might ask. “Those women are bigots! These men are just telling like it is and calling these women out on their hypocrisy!”
Actually, no, they’re not. They weren’t saying that Sarah Palin was unqualified to hold national office because she was too uneducated in federal politics. They were calling her a “dumb twat” – reducing her to a female body part.
This is a problem. You can’t claim to be on the side of women if you turn around and use a sexist slur against a conservative woman. If you believe misogynistic slurs are wrong, you should believe they’re always wrong, not just okay when used against women you don’t like.
Now, I will freely admit that I break my own rules at times. I stop being a feminist when I’m in the driver’s seat and I say foul things when some [word redacted] cuts me off. Sometimes when I’m angry, I’ll unleash a b-word or even a c-word – with the windows rolled up, under my breath, when the only person who can hear me is me. I’m a human being, so are all of you, and sometimes we choose to do things that we know are wrong. It doesn’t (necessarily) make us bad people (depending on the action).
BUT I also don’t try to pretend I’m justified in saying the b-word or c-word. I don’t say, “She is such a [word redacted] and it’s okay for me to say that because I’m a feminist!” I say, “She is such a [word redacted] and I know I shouldn’t say that but I am because HULK SMASH!” I know it’s wrong. Sometimes I do it anyway – but only in the privacy in my own car or among my closest friends, people who know me well. I don’t publicly call ANY women misogynistic slurs because it hurts them, and it hurts my case.
So yes, I’m going to defend Palin and Bachmann and conservative women like them when someone else uses a misogynistic slur against them – even though I disagree with them on almost everything, even though they express bigoted viewpoints, even though they wouldn’t do the same for me. We all should defend them, because if we don’t take a principled stand against that kind of language, we can’t claim the moral high ground and we can’t make the world a better place for all women.
Besides, do you really want to be responsible for proving RUSH LIMBAUGH even the teensiest bit right about anything? I didn’t think so.
The flip side is that conservatives should also call out their own kind for misogyny, and should defend Hillary Clinton and progressive women against sexist attacks – and, of course, many of them only bother to care about misogyny when Republican women are the victims of it. Trust me, I’m aware of that. But I also don’t think most conservatives read my blog anyway, so this post is directed towards the more typical reader.
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I take your point. “Twat” levied against Palin is as offensive as “slut” against Fluke. But there’s one big difference: Fluke is a private citizen, not a political leader. While ALL demeaning language demeans, Limbaugh crossed a new line when he inveighed against a private citizen exercising her constitutional rights to make her positions known.
I agree that there is a difference between the two situations, but I also believe that we should keep the slurs private, if only because if we use them, then the men who hate women, who have their own lives and opinions, independently of men, will start in on all of us.
I both agree and disagree with you. The men who hate women – and the misogynistic women who hate other women – will see progressives using slurs as further proof that it’s okay to use slurs, but I also think they would say nasty things no matter what we did.
The thing is, Sandra Fluke didn’t testify in some case that’s hidden under a confidential file. It’s public testimony, public record. Obviously I’m not a Limbaugh supporter and I find what he said disgusting and unacceptable. But I don’t think misogyny can be justified because someone makes themselves a public figure. Would racism be justified? Would antisemitism? I don’t think so. It’s just like in the movie ‘Mean Girls,’ we have to stop calling each other sluts and bitches because it just makes guys think it’s okay to do that. IT’S NOT OKAY, EVER.
Actually, while Fluke is a private citizen, she also chose to thrust herself into the limelight by coming out with a strong opinion on a national stage in a way intended to influence national healthcare policy, so your argument that she should enjoy privileges that Palin or Bachman be denied fails.
As to the blog author, I am a conservative, and I read your column today, so it just goes to show you: you never know who your audience might be.
That’s why I said “most conservatives” and not “all conservatives.”
Michael Moore called Sarah Palin a twat? I mean I was totally with you on that list of misogynist ass Lefties till that one. I just must I have missed that particular slur from him.
This just reminds me how awful our journalism is now, that loud mouth opinionated dicks saying dumb stuff is 98% of the political “reporting” that we get as a nation anymore. It’s disgraceful.
No, my bad, it was Bill Maher that called Palin a twat, not Moore. I wasn’t clear. But Moore DID immediately hand-wave the rape allegations against Julian Assange because he likes Julian Assange, so I put him on the list anyway.
And yeah, the level of discourse and journalism in this country is just plain embarrassing.
May I assume that when you say “loudmouth opinionated dicks” you are referring to Detectives? Otherwise, pot, kettle, black.
Yes…and no. It’s a gendered insult, yes – you’re right about that. But she was making a separate point about journalism, not condemning gendered insults, so I can’t say she’s contradicting herself.
> This just reminds me how awful our journalism is now,
> that loud mouth opinionated dicks saying dumb stuff
> is 98% of the political “reporting” that we get as a
> nation anymore. It’s disgraceful.
What is disgraceful is that you don’t seem to notice that you are doing exactly the same thing here. Reducing individuals to their reproductive parts.
You’re not wrong that “dick” is also a gendered insult, but she didn’t comment on the nature of gendered insults at all and was in fact making a separate point about political reporting and journalism, so I can’t say she’s being hypocritical here.
I have to admit, I use language and slurs, when angry and frustrated that I know are wrong – not out loud but in my head. And then I call myself wondering why I did that. Because I know it’s wrong and I don’t want to be that racist/misogynist/misandrist/homophobic/etc. It’s really, really hard to confront your own prejudices, to recognize your own privilege, and work your way through it…
But I tend to agree that it is necessary, even if you struggle with it and sometimes fail.
In one of my graduate classes, it came up whether or not we (as a helping profession) situated ourselves as morally superior (and many felt that we were, which I disagreed with). I think lefties (of which I technically am one, I guess? Canadians have a left, too, right?) occasionally employ that same logic (as do the right, more often it seems). The prof of that same class brought up a good point too – the idea that if we are to take a stand on one kind of injustice, we should be taking a stand on all kinds of injustice because, inevitably, our cause would come up on the chopping block eventually… If we don’t defend people like Sarah Palin and Michele Bachmann, we certainly can’t expect them to defend leftist women (or any person who disagrees) either.
I admit, though… I really don’t care for Ann Coulter.
The prof of that same class brought up a good point too – the idea that if we are to take a stand on one kind of injustice, we should be taking a stand on all kinds of injustice because, inevitably, our cause would come up on the chopping block eventually
Very well said.
I don’t care for Ann Coulter either, though. I don’t care for her a LOT. That’s why it sickens me that SHE was the first woman to call Bill Maher a misogynist to his face on his show. But you know what they say about stopped clocks…
I gotta say, I agree with you on a lot of these poi – wait, misandrist? I’m pretty sure men aren’t discriminated against on the basis of being men. “Misandry” isn’t a pervasive, hurtful force driven by society. The concept is made up by the “what about the menz” crowd, and, quite frankly, as a queer person, I find it slightly offensive that you consider it on-par with homophobia, sexism and racism.
It wasn’t my intention to offend anyone but I didn’t say I considered it on par with homophobia, sexism, or racism. I only said that I didn’t want to be expressing sentiments that had those kinds of undertones – ones of hate. I was considering it from a more individual perspective than a structural one, though. I’m a student that’s still very much in the early stages of learning so I can’t speak to the concept of misandry but I appreciate your willingness to share your thoughts.
Yeah yeah we all do it, but I think there is another very important distinction here that is being missed. When Bill Maher calls Sarah Palin a “twat”, he is not literally saying she is a vagina (and BTW men are often called twats). What made Rush’s comment so over-the-top offensive is that he wasn’t saying “Jane you ignorant slut”, he was directly making a qualitative judgement about Ms. Fluke and her character, and using these judgments in turn to implicate an entire block of women – in fact just about all women in our society. Finally what makes it all the more gross is just the abject hypocrisy of a man who runs off to the DR with a bottle of Viagra for a stag party and who has been married 4 TIMES (and whom, with his $50/year we can assume doesn’t attract young women with his good looks and charm alone) making a point of saying (through his actions) it’s OK for men to use up women because they somehow are deserving sluts.
Finally the entire issue was supposed to be a big song and dance about the moral superiority of Rush (who at this point makes Bill Clinton look like a boy scout) and his listeners, when by their actions any sane person would conclude that they wallow in false prudery and purile hatred and character assassination.
Your point about the differences between Limbaugh and Maher’s relative influence in their respective parties is valid, but trust me that I am not “missing” that distinction – I didn’t mention it because it’s not relevant to the main point of the post, which is that using misogynistic slurs is wrong, full stop.
When Bill Maher calls Sarah Palin a “twat”, he is not literally saying she is a vagina (and BTW men are often called twats)
Men are also called “pussies” and “cunts” and have said to be “bitching” – usually implying that these men are acting like women, and therefore implying that acting like a woman is a bad thing. That’s the way insults work.
I am not defending Rush Limbaugh in the slightest. I’m only pointing out that progressives need to practice what they preach on a more consistent basis.
Is there a difference between calling a person (male OR female) “a dick” or “a cunt”? Or, perhaps, even the genderless “asshole”? They all seem to convey roughly the same meaning to me. Sure, “cunt” has a bigger shock value. Probably just because it hasn’t been as overused as dick has. If anything, I tend to think of that coming more from a reverence for women, an expectation that they will behave better than their male counterparts, and while this idea may not always be in the best interests of women, I don’t think it qualifies as misogyny.
I agree with Tony G that whether or not it’s okay to call someone a dick/cunt/ass figuratively, calling someone a slut in the literal sense with no supporting evidence is a whole ‘nother level of nastiness.
I would say yeah, there’s a difference between a gendered insult and a gender-neutral insult (which I actually wrote about here: http://funnyfeminist.com/2011/01/12/gender-neutral-insults-everyones-an-asshole/).
If anything, I tend to think of that coming more from a reverence for women, an expectation that they will behave better than their male counterparts, and while this idea may not always be in the best interests of women, I don’t think it qualifies as misogyny.
I would qualify it as misogyny, actually. Women are expected to be “better” creatures than men, ergo men aren’t expected to behave themselves in any moral fashion, and that leads to “boys will be boys” chuckling and excuse-making when they do bad things, because it’s just “natural” for them to do bad things. If a woman does a bad thing, though, let’s start the witch hunt! Society will put people on pedestals and then turn on them like vicious packs of wolves if they dare to fall off of them.
You keep trying to justify the misogyny in your comment responses by acting like he means it, “in a different way”. He doesn’t, he thinks women, especially ones he doesn’t like are subhuman and you’re excusing that because you’re to afraid to confront the people on your political side. You condone sexism.
I don’t like Palin but the misogyny flung at her is unbelievable and hardly anyone on the left says anything about it. There have been several threats of rape even, ( sandra bernhardt, mike tyson-convicted rapist) but women’s organizations remain mute. As do liberal commentators.
Occupy wall street is similar. Women are expected to take one for the team and be quiet about sexual assault and it’s the left who make the most excuses for it because it’s “for the greater good”. Hell they even elected serial rapist and sexual harasser bill clinton. Obviously the left doesn’t have that high a standard, (and using examples of rightwing abusers doesn’t offset what liberal men and women do).
You keep trying to justify the misogyny in your comment responses by acting like he means it, “in a different way”. He doesn’t, he thinks women, especially ones he doesn’t like are subhuman and you’re excusing that because you’re to afraid to confront the people on your political side. You condone sexism.
Uh, excuse me? Who are you talking to here? And who are you talking ABOUT? “Acting like he means it ‘in a different way.'” What?
Bill maher. People were rationalizing and excusing him in yours comments. Despite his consistent misogyny. You also completely ignored the rest of my comment, (I’m surprised you didn’t try to make further justifications and quite frankly it’s disturbing how people have overlooked clinton’s rapes – let me guess the women are liars?)
I also want to remind you that, as you yourself pointed out, your blog readers are mostly of the same opinion as you. That means you just keep re-enforcing and validating each others views. Even when you’re wrong. You end up with a skewed view.
Holy hell. Do you even know how to read?
Tony G said this:
When Bill Maher calls Sarah Palin a “twat”, he is not literally saying she is a vagina (and BTW men are often called twats).
I said this in response:
Men are also called “pussies” and “cunts” and have said to be “bitching” – usually implying that these men are acting like women, and therefore implying that acting like a woman is a bad thing. That’s the way insults work.
Do I need to actually spell out, “No, it actually is wrong that Bill Maher uses sexist slurs against Sarah Palin,” for you to not understand that? Especially when I wrote that IN THE BODY OF THE POST ITSELF?
Oh and
“sometimes we choose to do things that we know are wrong. It doesn’t make us bad people.”
uh, yes it does. Doing bad things DOES make you a bad person. especially when you conciously choose to do it. this is ridiculous. Take responsibility for your actions. If you say and condone sexist actions, (as do many of your posters) then you are a sexist. That may conflict with your identity, (I’m sure you see yourself as a feminist, hence the blog title) but it’s the truth. Maybe you can pretend that it’s not the truth. But you’re lying to yourself.
You should be concerned with doing what’s truly right. About stopping misogyny. Not trying to justify and excuse it, including your own.
Did you even bother to read that paragraph? My whole point was that it’s NOT okay when I do it and I don’t pretend that it is. My point is that even well-meaning people can slip up in the heat of the moment and say things they know they shouldn’t say, and that we should recognize that behavior for what it is and then CHANGE said behavior.
I’ll have to edit that sentence about “doing things are wrong =/= bad people” because yeah, looking at again, that phrasing doesn’t really make sense. I’m not trying to say, “You can do whatever you want and be mean and still be considered a good person!” Rather, “We all make mistakes, sometimes we even do things that are bad, but it doesn’t make us irredeemable or horrible – we can learn from it and move on.”
You were trying to say that yes you were wrong but were justifying it. You are wrong to justify it. When you do that you are saying misogyny is okay. Just admit you were wrong and work to do better instead of trying to cover for yourself.
This is what I said.
BUT I also don’t try to pretend I’m justified in saying the b-word or c-word.
I am not condoning my mistakes or saying they are acceptable. I am saying they are HUMAN. If you don’t understand the distinction, then continuing this conversation is pointless.
Misogyny is human. Got it! you’re a great feminist.
And by the way. You are a bad person if you continue bad behaviour that you know is wrong. If you were to redeem yourself you would have to make the effort to stop it and actually stop it. I don’t think you’re about to stop calling bad drivers sexist slurs.
I call them nasty names under my breath, with the windows rolled up, where no one can hear me but me. The original post didn’t make that clear, but I edited it to change that.
If you’re going to judge me for things that I say TO MYSELF when no one is around, well, then congratulations on being a perfect person who never thinks anything wrong about anyone ever.
The trolls are out today.
Look. To be a good person is not to be perfect. It’s to acknowledge our faults and work on them. Admitting we make mistakes does not make us bad people, Bri.
I think what we’re missing is the word “automatically:” doing/saying bad things does not AUTOMATICALLY make someone a bad person, but if you acknowledge that these things are bad and take steps to counteract them, that’s the best we can do. We all need to improve. You’re way off base here.
And seriously. Whichever solar system is yours, it is clearly not ours. Plenty of feminist/liberal news sources or blogs called out everyone committing assault at OWS. I don’t know where that was tolerated, but not in this sphere.
I tend to agree with the whole “when you’re alone/with your peeps it’s different” thing, but then you get people like Bri who feel compelled to judge others based on their use of expletives, epithets and insults that may insult a particular group. I’m sorry, but I’m not on board with extreme language policing. I once got called out for calling someone an idiot because it was once a diagnostic category of intelligence referring to someone of a particular IQ range. Okay, that’s fine, but who the fuck identifies as an idiot? Where are the groups of idiots saying, “Hey, that’s degrading!”
Here’s how I think it should work: people get to say whatever they want. If I want to call you a twat, then I can. If you want to call me out on it, you can. If it’s between two ordinary people, then that’s as far as it goes. If it’s a national media figure, it will go much, much further. And if you are going to play Word Police, then you need to write citations for both sides, and not just your opponents. And if you’re going to use offensive language, then you better expect some serious blowback.
Judging the morality of others based on what they say in a moment of frustration is utterly fucking ridiculous because there’s always some clown who wants to take this to the extreme and ban EVERY offensive word they can possibly think of. It gives them power and a sense of righteousness. Bri seems perfectly comfortable twisting your words into an indictment of your character, but you know what? Bri sounds like an asshole to me, and I doubt Bri is the paragon of virtue that would put her in a position of genuinely righteous judgment. That’s mostly because the kind of people who are paragons of virtue and are in a position to issue genuinely righteous judgments DON’T JUDGE OTHER PEOPLE.
Just my two pennies.
Peace,
Shannon
Here’s how I think it should work: people get to say whatever they want. If I want to call you a twat, then I can. If you want to call me out on it, you can. If it’s between two ordinary people, then that’s as far as it goes.
That seems fair to me. From my side, I would politely request that people not use that word and explain why those kinds of words are hurtful, but I’m certainly not going to say, “You CAN’T say that.” I’m more likely to say (or think, because in real life I am not very confrontational), “You can say what you want but I am judging you so hard right now.”
I don’t get the “idiot” thing either. I also feel like there are some words where the connotation has replaced the denotation as the primary definition (hi, I used to be an English teacher). At this point, more people use “crazy” in a colloquial sense than in a literal sense to describe people with mental illness. Heck, the word “awful” used to mean “full of awe” and now it means “terrible.” Word meanings change.
ON the other hand, I work with people with disabilities and have a brother with autism, and I and other volunteers are very careful not even to say the word “stupid” in front of our clients because of the connotation it has for them. So even though I don’t entirely get the “idiot” thing, I get it to a point.
And yes, I thought I had made it pretty clear in the original post that I was NOT defending myself for saying bad things, just saying that I understand the impulse. And frankly, I don’t have the energy to police every tiny thing that happens every day, you know? Once one of my best friends was complaining about her boss and called said boss the c-word. I don’t love the use of the c-word, but I also know from my friend’s anecdote that this boss was extremely verbally abusive and degrading and made her go home in tears several different times. If I lectured my friend on the use of the c-word when she’s having an emotional moment about a terrible work situation, I suppose that would have made me more committed to my feminist philosophy, but it would also have made me a pretty shitty friend. I elected to be a good friend and listen instead – which I guess makes me a terrible person!
Thank you for the support and pennies.
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(1) Fluke is a professional activist, has been for years — just not overly successful in a public way. Underlined as this event has propelled her into a spotlight that she is now exploiting. Doesn’t make any difference, misogynistic language is misogynistic language and not excusable whether you are Rush, Maher, or anyone else — just don’t try to defend misogyny on the basis that she’s not a public figure, try something else if you think you need to excuse Maher et al.
(2) What you do in private and to youself WILL get public. If it’s common & alright to mouth obscenities at the careless driver who [ fill in the blank ] you, chances of it staying non-public forever are not good. And yea, we are all human; not sayin you’re a bad person because you let your temper get away, just that you did someting bad.
sorry, ” defend misogyny on the basis that she’s not a public figure” should be “defend misogyny on the basis that she’s a public figure”
I find it very disturbing that men like Bill Maher, Keith Olbermann, Michael Moore, and Chris Matthews , who often support points of view strongly I agree with, sink to the level of a Rush Limbaugh when discussing women they don’t like. Bachman and Palen are horrible and I can’t understand how they can take the positions they do and still think themselves good for the country or in any way helpful to their own gender. They are not, however, walking sexual organs.
But beyond the obvious mysogyny expressed by both sides when they are irritable of the actions of the opposition, there are much more effective terms to use that are not based on body parts. The only counterpoint I can offer is that they respond pretty much the same way about MEN they don’t like (Limbaugh, Boener, etc.) in male-specific but similar terms. Apart from the gender bashing, which is wrong whoever does it, I disapprove of the practice because any argument is much stronger when it’s conducted from organs ABOVE the waist.
Bachman and Palen are horrible and I can’t understand how they can take the positions they do and still think themselves good for the country or in any way helpful to their own gender. They are not, however, walking sexual organs.
Well said. I don’t like them at all, but they don’t deserve to be treated that way.
Apart from the gender bashing, which is wrong whoever does it, I disapprove of the practice because any argument is much stronger when it’s conducted from organs ABOVE the waist.
Ha! Even better said.
Just saw this linked to on FB. I am very glad you wrote what you did. There has been way too little said about this.
Reblogged this on CastforGreens.
As a ‘conservative’ woman who just read your blog, I agree with you. We cannot divide women or men into political, social, or racial groups by political, racial, or social slurs. According the Declaration of Independence, all men (and that does include women) are created equal. When it was written it meant exactly what it said – we are all human beings and deserve to be treated equally as human beings whether female, male, black, white, whatever race you claim to be, republican, democrat or libertarian. If we really understood those ‘laws of nature and of ‘nature’s God’ and our ‘inalienable rights’ as human beings, our country would be in a much better place politically, economically, socially, and culturally.
Hilarious coming from a “feminist” a person who think the social science of feminism is an ACTUAL science, that the trials and tribulations that women face can be studied with science. Then ignores that WHITE WOMEN unequally benefit from Affirmative action, that white women are far less discriminated against than black man and latino men. When white women are being massively imprisoned then they can complain about unfair treatment. When white women have an unemployment rate DOUBLE the national average even for their college and graduate grads, then they can complain about wage discrimination.When studies don’t show that black men are still more involved fathers than white men, but the media portrays them not to be then you can tell me that you pay attention to social science, not that people hate you because you have a vagina. Not just because you make up phrases like “rape culture” and make it seem like parent shave to RAISE BOYS to not rape? As if your father and brother were taught to not rape, and that only good men who are taught to not rape are the ones who don’t.. Complain when you pay attention to the world around you.
That was certainly well-said and not at all ranty or unnecessary.
You are right to point this out, however. I have certainly never blogged about racism before. Never ever: http://funnyfeminist.com/category/white-girl-talkin-about-racism/
Please, it’s irrelevant. You’re still white, and you are STILL privileged. Sorry it wasn’t as “well written” as your blog post. I’m tired of seeing privileged white women talk about their issues as if they’re the most victimized individuals in America when they clearly aren’t. Intersectionality alone disputes any claim white women have on any type of massive discrimination. Sorry.. also, feminism is SOCIAL SCIENCE not fact.
Please show me textual evidence where I claimed to NOT be privileged, or where I acted as though white women are the most victimized people in America.
I find it highly amusing that you decided to make this rant against me when half of this post was me criticizing myself.
I’m also amused that you’ve read exactly one post of mine because you found this link somewhere else, and decided to spout this large rant at me because you think that this one blog post represents everything that I believe and everything I care about. “She wrote about not using misogynistic language against conservative women, therefore she must not give a shit about discrimination against black and Latino men!” That’s some insane troll logic you’ve got there, sir.
Pheonixjeff is pulling a tu quoque fallacy here (in part). The rest;
A: The attack was made against women. Not white women, much as some would like to portray it.
B: Just because others suffer apparently worse discrimination doesn’t mean you can’t comment on an inequality or discriminatory act.
In that case let’s stop discussing all rights issues in America because the Iraqi citizens have had it so badly due to the last ten years of war inflicted on them, shall we? That certainly outweighs any Western suffering!
See how invalid my statement was? Pheonix is doing the same.
C: “I’m tired of seeing privileged white women talk about their issues as if they’re the most victimized individuals in America when they clearly aren’t.”
And I’m tired of whiny men on the internet bitching about how they’re mistreated and downtrodden by evil women because they can’t be bothered to learn social niceties, proper grooming habits, and how to get a date with a woman as if it’s discrimination but you don’t see me going on about it, do you?
I also recognize that isn’t the summation of the MRA position. Unlike you Pheonixjeff, I don’t do fallacious generalizations.
D: “When white women have an unemployment rate DOUBLE the national average even for their college and graduate grads, then they can complain about wage discrimination.”
Non sequitur.
E: “Sorry.. also, feminism is SOCIAL SCIENCE not fact. ”
Excuse me? Are you doing an attack on social sciences now? Are you saying that psychology, sociology, etc aren’t legitimate sciences boyo?
Because social sciences do in fact present fact. You clearly don’t understand what science is and what facts are if you can make such an ignorant statement as that. If you find errors in one area of a science it doesn’t invalidate the whole field. That’s called a fallacy of division and it makes you no better than a creationist.
My advice is stop parroting talking points of all types and start thinking. You tossed in a few valid points amongst all the drek and drivel you tossed out but the latter is so horrifyingly wrong I couldn’t even begin to focus on the valid points.
http://thetruepooka.wordpress.com/
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I’m late to reply to this, but thanks for pointing this out. The logicfail was hurting my brain and you broke down the fallacies very well.
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This blog was pointed out to me by an acquaintance of mine as a link on facebook, I am a very conservative white male which I point out only as a back story. Lady T I don’t know you but from from what I can tell we would agree on nothing politically, yet I can’t help myself but agree with everything you said in this blog. Being that I have had the “boys will be boys” mind set for most of my life, I can tell you when that changed. First I met my wife who is the strongest most loving and forgiving person I have ever met in my entire life. Then we had a beautiful little girl, I guess my point is I would not want the girls (and woman) I hold so dear in my life subjugated by the same thought process I had in my youth.
I guess my point is I would not want the girls (and woman) I hold so dear in my life subjugated by the same thought process I had in my youth.
That’s a very nice way to express that sentiment and it sounds like you care for your wife and daughter very much. Thank you for commenting.