Jane Austen’s novels. Sex and the City. Twilight.
This sounds like the setup to a really bad, bizarre joke, doesn’t it? “Jane Austen’s novels, Sex and the City, Twilight walk into a bar…”
I’m sure even looking at all of those names together will make some fellow Austenites spin in their graves – and if they’re not dead, will make them dig their own graves just so they can have something to spin in. But there is something that Jane Austen’s novels, Sex and the City, and Twilight have in common: they all appeal to women.
This does not mean that all three of these things – or indeed, any of these three things – appeal to all women. It means that Jane Austen’s novels, Sex and the City, and Twilight are written for a female audience, have female protagonists, and deal with stereotypically feminine issues such as marriage and dating.
As a result, all three of these things are often met with sneers and eyerolls and condescending comments about how they can’t be that important because they deal with women’s issues like marriage and dating and fashion-related shopping – as though women’s issues are inherently less important than men’s issues, and as though men never marry, date, or buy clothes.
Don’t believe me? Check out this, this, this, and this. The last one particularly irks me because Jane Austen’s writing is probably less sentimental than Shakespeare’s, but because she’s a woman, she gets slammed with the “sentimental” moniker – which, in this context, is meant as an insult.
(These are not the only female-centric works that receive this kind of criticism, of course. I chose these three because I have a lot of contempt for Twilight, I enjoy Sex and the City but find some aspects of it annoying and problematic, and I love Jane Austen’s novels like I love a good red wine – and I wanted to show how the same kind of sexism is very easily found in criticism of all three of these things.)
When I was younger, I had a knee-jerk reaction against anything that was stereotypically feminine. I wrote lengthy pieces of text about how much I hated Titanic and Leonardo DiCaprio and shared these opinions with everyone who didn’t want to hear it (I was a lonely child). If I admitted to watching Dawson’s Creek, I had to quickly mention that I actually hated it and was just watching because of how bad it was (I wasn’t – I watched because I liked Michelle Williams and was in love with Pacey). If I admitted to reading The Baby-sitters Club as a kid, I quickly added, “But I also really like Star Wars!”
It wasn’t a lie. I did really like Star Wars, and still do. I love Lost and Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter and A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones and everything the Monty Python troupe has done and Disney/Pixar movies. I also love Jane Austen and Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Clueless and When Harry Met Sally… and The Baby-sitters Club and Disney Princess movies.
This is just a short list of pieces of entertainment that are near and dear to my heart. (I still haven’t mentioned The Simpsons, which may be my favorite form of entertainment I have ever consumed.) But the first group of texts prominently feature male writers AND/OR male protagonists, and the second group of texts prominently feature female writers AND/OR female protagonists.
“So? If you believe in equality between men and women, and you’re a feminist, and you love male-centric and female-centric entertainment equally, what’s the big deal? What’s the difference?”
The difference is in how I [used to] talk about those texts.
If I brought up Lost or Lord of the Rings or Star Wars, I was trying to impress a boy I liked (in a friendly or romantic context) by showing how much of a “guy” I could be. I thought he would like me more if I liked “guy” things.
If I brought up Buffy or The Baby-sitters Club, it was among my female friends, or I would use it as a preface when talking to boys. “Yeah, I really like Buffy…but I also really like Lost and Lord of the Rings and Star Wars! IT’S OKAY! I LIKE THAT ONE GIRLY THING BUT I’M STILL COOL!”
Because “things boys like” were cool and “things girls like” were uncool.
This was back in my teenage years, where my definition of feminism was “proving how I am better and different from all those other girls.” Unfortunately, this attitude doesn’t end in high school for all people. I’ve had lengthy conversations with a man who insisted, “Don’t assume I don’t like Jane Austen just because I’m a guy,” and after I agreed not to stereotype him that way, proceeded to tell me on several different occasions that women only like Jane Austen because of Mr. Darcy. (No, he did not see the irony or the contradiction in these two statements.)
This instinct – this instinct to put down our girly interests to impress boys – is a result of years and years of societal conditioning. Even at my age, I still have to fight the instinct to apologize for my more stereotypically girly interests. In a conversation with my own boyfriend, I felt the need to reassure him that I really really like Led Zeppelin (I do) which should make up for the fact that I also really really like Broadway musicals (I do). This pressing need to reassure him wasn’t based on anything he had said or done – he shared my love of Led Zeppelin, but didn’t think less of me for liking musicals. This pressing need was based on my years of conditioning to talk up my stereotypically masculine interests and talk down my stereotypically feminine interests.
Now that I’m more active in my feminism, I (mostly) reject the need to apologize for my feminine interests. In fact, I might be veering too far in the opposite direction.
Please keep in mind that I don’t think it’s possible to “go too far” with the concept of feminism and equality between men and women. That’s not what I mean about “veering too far in the opposite direction.” I only mean that, because of the sexism that I see in criticism of female-centric texts, I’m automatically suspicious of any criticism of these texts.
This knee-jerk reaction is very inconvenient. I don’t even like Twilight, yet I feel the need to defend it when George Takei calls for sci-fi fans to hate on Twilight. “There’s a battle between Trekkies and Star Wars fans but let’s all agree that this girly thing really sucks!”
Having consumed all of the Twilight books, and having seen the original Star Wars Trilogy, and having seen some of the best episodes of Star Trek: The Next Generation, I can say without a doubt that I find Twilight far inferior to those two series.
But I still can’t enjoy that call to arms to hate on Twilight. Not after reading those articles about entitled fanboys foaming at the mouth at the very idea of girls showing up at Comic-Con to enjoy things that they (boys) don’t also enjoy.
Going to Comic-Con and enjoying a text or franchise that doesn’t meet with the (Male) Sci-Fi Geek Seal of Approval inspires hatred and entitlement and sarcastic mockery, a “how dare they intrude on our space” complaint. Girls drooling over Edward Cullen is a sign of the apocalypse, and a sign that these girls need some serious psychotherapy before they find real-life abusive, stalkery boyfriends – but guys drooling over Megan Fox in the Transformers series is just an example of boys being boys, and not a sign of holding their own impossible standards for women.
Maybe this “Star Wars, Star Trek, whatever, we all hate Twilight” argument is all a bit of tongue-in-cheek fun. Maybe it’s just another example of two male-dominated groups getting together to agree that this girly thing that girls like really sucks and is terrible. Or maybe it’s a weird combination of the two, where the intent is to just make fun of a text that is straight-up bad writing, but the effect is just another example of girly stuff lambasted by groups of (mostly) guy fans.
Sometimes, the distinction is so fine that I really can’t tell the difference.
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I can relate to every word of this post. I was lucky enough to grow up with a dad who is the closest person to Joss Whedon, I’ve ever met in real life. He read me Jane Austin, introduced me to Buffy, analyzed the Disney princesses and their character attributes and flaws when I was still in pre school. However, until the last few years (I’m now in my late twenties) I felt very uncomfortable mentioning these “girly” interests around friends mostly because they didn’t “get” it and these works didn’t seem “cool” to them. Also let’s not forget music. Lilith Fair was founded because Sarah Mclachlan couldn’t get her record company to set her up with other female artists for tours because they didn’t think they would sell enough tickets and I remember an ex boyfriend rolling his eyes and turning off Michelle Branch thinking her voice was too “girly.”
The thing which, ironically, made me start openly embracing my girly interests were my gay male friends. Seeing men, not only enjoy these works that appealed so much to me but also embrace and desire to emulate the heroines in them made me rethink my conditioned”shame” for enjoying them. (I know there are plenty of gay men who hate “girly” things but my particular friends loved Jane Austin, Buffy, Gilmore Girls etc).
And I won’t dig a grave just to spin in it for your coupling of Jane Austin and Twilight in the same sentence since you mentioned Buffy in the same sentence with Jane later. 🙂
I’m happy to read that about your dad. I’m pretty sure my dad’s love of stereotypically feminine interests like opera and theater had an influence on my upbringing as well – and so did my mom’s love of rock music.
Did you say something to Mr Takei about it? Because honestly, I think he would get it and maybe rein in a bit of the anti-girl stuff.
In addition to men looking down on women for liking girly things, women also often sneer at other women for liking stereotypical girly things. That almost frustrates me more. (Almost.)
I haven’t, but that’s a good idea. I have to think about how to say it.
I know what you mean about women sneering at other women for being girly. I admit to having done that myself, once upon a time.
Confession time: I like Twilight in a So Bad It’s Good way; it amuses me with how very over the top it is and I still can’t get over how dramatic everyone in it can be. Yes, I understand not everyone else will agree with me. And yes, I’m aware of how problematic it is and agree with feminist critcisms of it.
However, I was never able to get behind the hate because of how anti-girl I though some of the hate was. Especially the guys whining that icky girls were going to mess up thier Comic-Con.
And what especially annoyed me were the people who would criticsize the books for Bella having so many guys interested in her when they woun’t complain that Indianna Jones or James Bond go through tons of love interests in their movies.
Now if you’ll excuse me, I have to dig a grave to spin in.
Have you read the tumblr Reasoning with Vampires? It’s probably the best criticism of Twilight I’ve ever seen.
For argument’s sake, I want to say that Bella is perhaps treated differently than Indiana Jones because he never has more than one female love interest in the same movie, while Bella’s involved in a love triangle that lasts four books…but I bet she’d get the same criticism even if she had a dating life similar to Indy.
Count me in as another girl who used to be ashamed of liking girly things. I’m trying to be less like that.
It’s a hard pattern to break. I still have to kick myself sometimes.
I find it very interesting when this comes up, because it is very true that girls interests are more sneered upon then boys interest, but we also do have a boycentered world so its not so wierd. What i do think though is that more and more people is starting to notice and i hopa so dearly that everyone espessially young girls will be able to grow up without having to feel ashamed by their girly interests.
What i do think though is that more and more people is starting to notice and i hopa so dearly that everyone espessially young girls will be able to grow up without having to feel ashamed by their girly interests.
I agree. I also hope we get to a point where young BOYS will be able to grow up without having to feel ashamed by their girly interests.
Came over here from requireshate, and have been reading as much as I can, while bobbing my head in approval. Can I blogroll you?
Sure, thanks!
As a 19 year old girl who was recently asked “Aren’t you getting a bit too old to still like pink?” (I doubt boys get the same criticisms for liking blue), I can really relate to this post.
I’ve found that my more ‘girly’ interests get criticised a lot more than anything I liked that’s geared towards men, and as a result of that I used to feel ashamed for liking girly things. I’m trying to stop that now, and talk about the girly things I like more positively, but it can still be a bit difficult at times.
I used to be like that. Even now that I’m older I’m still not the girliest girl around, I don’t really like romance or babies/kids. I hate skirts and dresses and want nothing to do with them. Not because I don’t want to be girly, but just because I don’t like them.
But now that I’m older I can admit unabashedly my greatest weakness – cute things. Whether it’s plushies or kittens or puppies or cute cartoon characters or whatever, they make my heart melt! I have an special weakness for cute toys though. I’m so stereotypically girly when it comes to cute things and I don’t care anymore.
One of my closest friends is one tough lady and is the teacher that students don’t want to mess with, and she loves everything having to do with Hello Kitty. Just goes to show how complex people can be. 🙂
This is a very interesting article and I appreciate your thoughts on the subject. I agree with your take on the issue and I have experienced many of the same feelings throughout my life. I particularly appreciate that you recognize that perhaps you are veering too far in the opposite direction. A few points that I’d like to make; 1) I think that the targeted age group for each of these things should factor into this argument. 2) I don’t think George Takei’s objection had anything to do with Twilight being “girly.” After all, he specifically calls Buffy to join the fight on his side! His objection to it is what he perceives as a lack of substance. (Though I don’t think that’s necessarily fair since the target audience for Twilight is tweens and early teens.) He makes a very valid point which I agree with entirely (and which is the reason I only read the first two books in the series) when he states, “…in Twilight, the only message that rings through loud and clear is ‘Does my boyfriend like me?'” 3) I don’t think it’s sexist to bash Twilight. In fact, I think that you could even make the case that the books themselves are misogynist. I don’t have a problem with people liking the Twilight series. I like almost anything that gets people excited about reading. I can completely understand why young girls in particular were so enthralled with these stories. But I do not, by any stretch of the imagination, think that Bella is a good role model for girls. 4) This one is meant to be taken as a sweeping generalization: I have received far more criticism and condescension about my “girly” interests from my “feminist” friends than I ever have from any males in my life. Men do not make me feel stupid or ashamed for liking feminine or girly things. They sometimes hate the things that I love (i.e. romantic comedies) and roll their eyes at me or make snarky comments about how stupid they think it is, but they don’t make me feel inferior or flawed for liking these things. From my point of view, they just accept that women in general like these things much like women just accept that men in general like sports. (Obviously, there are many who don’t fall into these categories but there are also many who do.) But my friends who strongly identify themselves as feminists are constantly making comments about the scourge and disgrace of “girly” things. I don’t feel like I have to hide my girly interests from men; I feel like I have to hide them from my feminist friends.
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